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craigpp
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PostSubject: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:34 am

Have to say I'm very very impressed with these ideas brought forth on first impression. I may have to read them again when I have a little more time, but this really does look promising and I think this is the kind of thing people will understand as well, save for perhaps any new managers (that said, the fact they really don't have to worry about this kind of thing immediately is a very good thing).
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:29 pm

I think it sounds really good. I also like how it starts next season, which gives managers a chance to start saving so that they can buy good facilities. The only thing I am not sure on, is if you have to work your way up gradually, or could you buy both level 6 if you wanted too?? I already have my plan for how I am going to do this, which SHOULD really improve my team in the long term.

It will be interesting to see how all managers go about this differently as there are many different ways to do it. First team coaches, or reserve team, and with the different levels of class, it will be good to see how different managers build their team up for the future.

Also, some people might not want to save at all for this, and just keep playing the game they are at the moment.
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:27 pm

So far I must say I have had a positive response, which is a relief!

I must say a massive thank you to Harry, who helped me try and get rid of any possible faults we could find, though obviously everybody else could find some!

Jonny, in response to your question, you wouldnt be able to jump straight to a level 6 centre, you would have to build up step by step. Also, you could only upgrade your centre once a season, so realistically, everybody should be able to, if wanted, get a L1 centre and coach for season 3.
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Jonny-Atlanta
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:43 pm

Oh right, well I did think that would be the case.

So realistically, it will take 6 AFM years to get to the top level, and that is if you upgrade at the end of each season. Looks like I am in it for the long haul Very Happy

Only thing that worries me about that, is that there isn't really going to be any advantage to any teams for splashing the cash on a training centre, because everyone else will most probably build at the same speed as you, due to the amount of time you have to save up the money..

Also, the level 6 coach is 30 million. Does this mean in order to get him, we will end up spending around 50 million on upgrades, or do you just pay the difference??

Also lol!, if I went two seasons without any upgrade, could I jump up 2 levels, or could I only go onto the next level. E.G

EOS 2 - Start at level 1
EOS3 - Dont have cash, so just stick with level 1
EOS4 - Jump up to level 3, or can I only go to level two???


Cheers

Just to get clear with it all Razz
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:50 pm

its fine ask away.

Only thing that worries me about that, is that there isn't really going to be any advantage to any teams for splashing the cash on a training centre, because everyone else will most probably build at the same speed as you, due to the amount of time you have to save up the money..

It isnt really about giving teams advantages, its to make the game more mentally challenging. Do you upgrade your training centre? Or get that defensive midfielder you think could make your season successfull? I dont envisage every single team progressing their centres at the same rates, far from it I think, every single manager will approach this differently.

Also, the level 6 coach is 30 million. Does this mean in order to get him, we will end up spending around 50 million on upgrades, or do you just pay the difference??

No you have to pay the full amount for every coach.

Also , if I went two seasons without any upgrade, could I jump up 2 levels, or could I only go onto the next level. E.G

EOS 2 - Start at level 1
EOS3 - Dont have cash, so just stick with level 1
EOS4 - Jump up to level 3, or can I only go to level two???


No, if you had a level 1, your next level possible would be 2.

So realistically, it will take 6 AFM years to get to the top level, and that is if you upgrade at the end of each season

I would guess a lot longer than that!
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Rags
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:49 pm

Had a read of this last night and not sure waht to make of it really, sounds great but not sure how benificial it would be if i'm honest.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:47 pm

Rags wrote:
Had a read of this last night and not sure waht to make of it really, sounds great but not sure how benificial it would be if i'm honest.

I can see your point. Most, if not all, managers will go for coaching to some degree. I would be very surprised if the majority did the opposite, despite the cost. However, the prospect for a different strategy is on offer and I think that's what we have to look at. To coach deeply to Level 6, to do some coaching and save money, or not to coach at all and go for scouted players instead? That is the question that everyone will have to consider once coaching becomes active in Season 3.

This kind of option is very much like whether to play your youngsters in the senior or youth team. Will they play well enough in the seniors to reap the benefits, or is just letting them wait a better option? Both have their pitfalls and benefits in equal measure. These kind of things are going to only make the game more interesting over time and I like to see how people are going to tackle it. We may all follow a similar trend, but we may not.

Just like the first season, I'm sure the apparent complications and tough questions will be answered or simplified once coaching is set in motion.

EDIT: As far as I remember, you can only pick a few players for coaching, one for mentoring and our coaches are obviously not all going to be the same skill or have the same ability for every position. PLENTY of scope for different situations throughout all the squads in the game.
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:57 pm

finaly got time to sit down and read the coaching idea.

if i understand it properly, which i think i do lol i think its actually a good idea, not sure about the cost tbh but i think the idea it self is good one.

if being really honest i think the idea could be expanded abit more.

ignoring the cost and going off the original idea: ie coaching depends on level of training centre and level of coach based on minutes played etc etc

how about this:

purchase a training centre (level 1) and hire a head coach. ie W_Wor 30 hol 1 1 1 1

now the head coach is important!

the head coach trains all players (seniors only) So if your player had played 900 minutes, with a head coach he would recieve a bonus of (900/10x1) = 90abs to his main skill. ie TK to defenders, PS to mids..... (there is a reason for this will explain shortly)

now after the head coach is in place you can hire additional staff (1 per season)

youth coach. ie E_Englund 35 far 1 1 1 1
youth coach trains all players in your youth team, So if your player had played 900 minutes, with a youth coach he would recieve a bonus of (900/10x1) = 90abs to his main skill.

you must have a head coach to purchase additional staff, if the head coach is sacked or retired all other staff become inactive. now some staff can be a single level staff like the youth coach but other staff can be at different levels depending on the training facilties.

additional staff:

youth coach (1 level)

goalkeeper coach
level 1 (coach_1 30 hol 1 0 0 0) trains 1 first team player or 1 reserves. So if your player had played 900 minutes, with a goalkeeper coach he would recieve a bonus of (900/10x1) = 90abs to his keeping stats plus another 90abs off his head coach (or youth coach if have one) so he would recieve 180abs!
level 2 (coach_2 30 hol 2 0 0 0) level 2 training centre) 2 first team or 2 reserves or one of each.
level 3
level 4
level 5
level 6

Defensive coach
level 1 (coach_1 30 hol 0 1 0 0) trains 1 first team player or 2 reserves.
level 2
level 3
level 4
level 5
level 6

midfield coach
level 1 (coach_1 30 hol 0 0 1 0) trains 1 first team player or 2 reserves.
level 2
level 3
level 4
level 5
level 6

forward coach
level 1 (coach_1 30 hol 0 0 0 1) trains 1 first team player or 2 reserves.
level 2
level 3
level 4
level 5
level 6

each coach can be allocated to any player, so if you have a midfielder and want to train his tackling, you could assign him to your defensive coach. as an example A_PLAYER 30 hol 1 7 20 3 assigned to defensive coach 1, plays 1000 minutes would get 100abs for tackling and 100abs off his head coach for passing!

physio
level 1 level 1/2 training center reduces 1 week from injury
level 2 level 3/4 training center reduces 2 week from injury
level 3 level 5/6 training center reduces 3 week from injury

fitness coach
level 1 level 1/2 training center reduce fatigue by ?%
level 2 level 3/4 training center
level 3 level 5/6 training center

scout
level 1 level 1/2 training center 5% of scout missions
level 2 level 3/4 training center 10%
level 3 level 5/6 training center 15%

mentor
level 1 level 1/2 training center, mentors 1 player
level 2 level 3/4 training center
level 3 level 5/6 training center

positional coach (only buy 1 per season) trains 1 player only.
L coach
R coach
C coach

coaching instructor for retiring players.

these are just ideas, but as long as you have a training centre, level 1,2,3,4,5,6 and a head coach, you could have all the staff or just one etc etc etc

so you could eventually have level 3 training centre, head coach and a level 3 gk coach and thats it, or level 1 training center and all level 1 staff.

this would honestly take season after season after season for anyone to achieve a full set up even at level one.

also as coaches retire, makes managers keep an eye on there staff, also managers can hire and fire staff as needed.

thoughts
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:11 pm

my immediate thoughts would be, "thats a whole lot of work!"

but i do see where your coming from, i was aiming to have a wide selection of coaches for each level to get around the option of training certain aspects of players, i.e tackling, passing etc.

I do like the idea of being able to use coaches to "retrain" players to be able to play on certain sides, this would have to, in my eyes, be very costly to prevent everyone from making their players super versatile.

What does everyone else think?
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:37 pm

what i was thinking about was that the training centre, head coach and possibly the youth coach would be appealing to almost anyone.

as for the additional coaches, yeah it might be a bit of work, but just as much as the original idea, especially when it comes to EOS BONUSES.

also i thought by being able to hire additional staff gives teams a chance to work on secondaries and positions as well.

as its just a rough idea, obviously alot to sort out prior but no one would be able to hire extra staff till season 4 and thats more than likely going to be a youth coach if honest.

also it allows managers to customize there staff to suit there own training needs.

the idea probably can be simplified, to make it easier to update!

any other thoughts?
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:17 am

just as another idea off the top of my head.

buy a level 1 training center and a head coach (compulsory) as said before. head coach multiplies main stats (900/10x1) for all senior teams.

level 1 training center gives you access to the following:

head coach
youth coach
scout level 1 10% reduction

then training center level 2 gives access to extra staff

senior goalkeeping coach
senior defensive coach
senior passing coach
senior shooting coach
reserve goalkeeping coach
reserve defensive coach
reserve passing coach
reserve shooting coach
which increase each main stat by (900/10x2) for each position ie gk's are only trained with the goalkeeping coach etc

level 3

scout level 2 20% reduction
physio level 1, 1 week taken off injury
mentor (1player only)

level 4

assistant senior goalkeeping coach
assistant senior defensive coach
assistant senior passing coach
assistant senior shooting coach
assistant reserve goalkeeping coach
assistant reserve defensive coach
assistant reserve passing coach
assistant reserve shooting coach
ie must have a defensive coach before you can hire an assistant. allows you to increase all non defenders tackling (900/10x1) ie if you have a defensive senior coach all players in your first team will increase their TK's. defenders by 900/10x2 as per usual.

level 5

scout level 3, 30% reduction
physio level 2, 2 week reduction on injuries
youth coach level 2, increases main stats by 900/10x3

level 6
head coach level 2, increases main stats by 900/10x3
L side coach
R side coach
C side coach

i suppose this way, when you do EOS bonuses your either doing the entire team based on minutes played, or in blocks of gk's, def's, mids, or for's.

a combination of both ideas and easier to maintain?
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:18 am

if a team had all coaches with your suggestion andie, that would make 18 coaches!

24 teams x 18 coahes = 432 coaches.

unless you simplify it mate I dont think I could even think of 432 nationalities and names, let alone create them all!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:53 am

I think the original plans by Scott and Harry were just simple enough for everyone to understand the system. Andie's idea might be interesting but will be most successful in confusing the shit out of everyone, including this poster here! Shocked

We can keep a good level of realism with the changes that have happened in the game since its inception, and the changes that will happen next season but let's not make it too realistic and complicated. Ironically, having 18 coaches would probably reduce realism on top of being very complicated. Let's try to keep it relative to what Scott and Harry have already been working on. Being a commissioner in a game like this can be pretty taxing and going over-complicated will just kill lifestyles unnecessarily Smile
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:05 am

and my lifestyle is already killed!

For those who dont know, and I believe not many, if any of you do, I am competitng in the Jungle Marathon 09.

It is a 200km race in the amazon rainforest, been described as the hardest footrace on earth! It is in Ocotober.

So currently, I am training 1.5/2 hours 6 days a week, and that is only going to get longer and longer as the thing approaches.

This means two things.

1. With work, training, wand my home life, I dont have much free time.

2. When I do have free time, I am exhausted!!!!


So, please bear with me if I dont upload results the same day as they go out, I will probably be dead on my settee!!!!
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:31 pm

wasnt trying to complicate the idea or create more work, it was a suggestion, so some parts of it could be used in the current suggested coaching idea.

if honest when i read the coaching files i thought it would be a good addition to the game, i was seriously impressed with the idea, it obviously has had alot of time and effort went into it.

but when i thought about it, it didnt seem too appealing TBH which was a shame as alot of thought has went into it.

to put it bluntly if managers feel its something they need or can use then fair enough, me personally, i would probably only have it for the sake of it, which is wrong really.

this is why:

Training centre L1 - 2,500,000, Level 1 coach - 1,000,000 = 3,500,000

for what? to have 1 player gain just over 100abs (or 2 youth) thats roughly what your going to get (working on minutes played minus mins lost due to fitness, injuries, suspensions)

Training centre L2 - 5,000,000, Level 2 coach - 2,500,000 = 7,500,000 (11,000,000 overall)

2 players 200abs (4youth)

Training centre L3 - 10,000,000, Level 3 coach - 5,000,000 = 15,000,000 (26,000,000 overall)

3players 300abs (6 youth)

it doesnt really get intresting until it hits level 4 and thats only because the amount of youths you can train but the cost of the thing gets stupid.

the suggestions i made was to make the whole thing more appealing and beneficial to managers.

just trying to help out.
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Scott - Bordeaux
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:44 pm

help is much appreciated Andie.

Im not saying I wont look into what your saying, just that trying to manage over 400 coaches may be a bit too much for me to do!

I have played about with the idea of multiple coaches, the plans I have put fwd arent 100% set in stone, but they are about the best (and esiest) method we could put together.

Having said that, I do see that a level 6 coach maybe somewhat useless, if its a defensive one, are you seriously going to find 12 yth players to warrant that sort of coaching? Im doubtfull.

So maybe, the following?

A training centre at x cost per level

a youth training centre at x cost per level

senior coaches at x cost per level

youth coaches at x cost per level.

This would then give managers far more avenues to follow and make it a bit more technical, whilst still, from an admin side of things, be manageable to control?
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:50 am

what i was thinking was

training centre at x cost

and hire a head coach (who gives everey first team player basic abs) more appealing!

then after that (2nd season) a youth coach, gives all youth x2 abs (as youth are impotant.) a must have!

after that a level 2 training center allows you an extra coach (any of, but only 1, gk def mid for) managers choice? trains 2 gives double to those players

then after that a coach for youth (gk def mid for) trains 2 gives double

then after that a level 3 center you can hire a level 3 coach (senior or youth or both, 1 per season) x3 abs trains 3 only

so on and so on

so basicly you would have:

training center x level
head coach
youth coach
1 additional 1st team coach x level
1 additional youth team coach x level

if you dont have head coach or youth coach you carnt hire extra staff

also extra staff are hired and fired to suit training center strength.

if anyone gets to a certain level of training center ie 4/5/6 a specialist coach can be hired ie position coach, scout, etc as listed before?

so a full set up could be

training center level 6
head coach
youth coach
1 additional 1st team coach level 6 (trains 6)
1 additional youth team coach level 6 (trains 6)
specialist coach 1
specialist coach 2
maybe a 3rd (dont know) lol

that makes it a bit more simple and more appealing as well i think?
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:53 am

basicly get a training center, 1 head coach then a youth coach (trains all) after that level 2 the same as your original idea. but later on you can add specialist coaches if wanted too

one season you could have a defensive coach the next a forward coach and so on

2 ideas in one?
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:44 pm

andieglen wrote:
basicly get a training center, 1 head coach then a youth coach (trains all) after that level 2 the same as your original idea. but later on you can add specialist coaches if wanted too

one season you could have a defensive coach the next a forward coach and so on

2 ideas in one?

Good idea.

What I though is if you could have the choice between a general coach which improves all of your players x1

Or, you could choose to buy a coach for one part of your team, but he improves them x3

Therefore, instead of building up your whole team gradually with a coach, you can concentrate on one area of weakness (eg weak defence) and improve that a lot.

Therefore, you could swap coaches at the end of each season to improve the full squad over the years, or go the easy route and get a all round coach.

This would be really interesting to see how people build up a team. All out for goals, or the Sam Allardyce way Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:08 pm

andieglen wrote:
basicly get a training center, 1 head coach then a youth coach (trains all) after that level 2 the same as your original idea. but later on you can add specialist coaches if wanted too

one season you could have a defensive coach the next a forward coach and so on

2 ideas in one?

but there would still be 400+ coaches in the game with that plan andie, doing an EOS update would be an absolute nightmare!!!!

I do like the idea of seperate senior coaches and youth coaches, original plan was ok, but when you think a level 6 coach could coach 12 yths it was a bit far.
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andieglen
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:59 am

Scott - Bordeaux wrote:
andieglen wrote:
basicly get a training center, 1 head coach then a youth coach (trains all) after that level 2 the same as your original idea. but later on you can add specialist coaches if wanted too

one season you could have a defensive coach the next a forward coach and so on

2 ideas in one?

but there would still be 400+ coaches in the game with that plan andie, doing an EOS update would be an absolute nightmare!!!!

I do like the idea of seperate senior coaches and youth coaches, original plan was ok, but when you think a level 6 coach could coach 12 yths it was a bit far.

well i can see your warming too the head/youth coach idea! as said more appealling.

the one thing i can see that puts you off is the 400 plus coaches.

TBH i know i made a suggestion but if needed not affraid of doing the leg work?

but if honest, these 400+ coaches would be more of a cosmetic thing than anything.

depending on the idea your going to go with (mine/yours/both)

the only reason you need names etc is for the age factor but if you think about it you dont?

have 1 page on site for training ie

click on training have all teams listed!

Sevilla
TRAINING CENTER LEVEL: ?
HEAD COACH B_Bob age 57 (X1)
YOUTH COACH A_Bob age 52 (X2)

additional coach
SENIOR: LEVEL 2 GK age 47 (X2)
YOUTH: LEVEL 2 FOR age 41 (X2)

specialist coaches
1,2,3 (whatever)

at the start of each season players in each roster are marked with their multiplyers ie X1, X2, X3, X4 easy to keep an eye on!

YOUR IDEA.

level 4 coach: A_Coach 37 1 2 1 4

yeah you do need to name them lol

so with mine, who says they need named, a level 2 doubles a level 3 triples apart from the age thing do we need to have 400+ coaches??????
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:18 pm

I must say Andie's ideas are great, but from an administrator's point of view I can see some difficulties. Why not start with the original idea, probably with the head and youth coach idea added to it. And let's wait and see how this works out for about two or three seasons and then evaluate this system.

About Andie's calculating: yes, I think 3,5 mil. for only a few Abs for 1 player may be too high cost.

And about the 400 coaches issue. Why not set a limit to the amount of coaches. Like in real life, there aren't loads of good coaches. So set a limit, or make coaches available by auction.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:50 am

I very much like the concept of training a player to be a coach once he retires. Great system. Not like it will be of use to me any time soon lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:52 am

harry@fctwente wrote:
I must say Andie's ideas are great, but from an administrator's point of view I can see some difficulties. Why not start with the original idea, probably with the head and youth coach idea added to it. And let's wait and see how this works out for about two or three seasons and then evaluate this system.

Fully agree with this quote. I say we take baby steps with this kind of addition which, even in its original form, will change the way we play AFM. I'm sure results/trends after even one season will be clear for all to see.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaction to coaching plans   Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:01 pm

ok.

i gather the general consensus (spelt correct?) is we introdyce the original system, but with the added extra of youth coaches alongside senior coaches. Then, providing this all go's smoothly, we can if needed expand the system.

Give me a bit of time and I will update and finalise the plans, and get them out to you all
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